I was wondering what the German sci-fi community felt about...

[SemperFidelis]

Hello,

I do realise that this may not be the best forum to adress this question, because of the language barrier, and hope not to appear as wanting to insult anyone by my questioning. I have litterally thaght seven times before posting this. I do know that it is a verry sensitive subject and that it is even illegal, for Germans, to address certain questions regarding your own history. I have been reading alot about fascisim, if I may call it so, as Hitlers assault in europe pratically formed the world as we now know it. Well not exactly as the world is a verry dynamic place but you get the picture right ? I believe that the recent breakthroughs in nano-technology warrant this kind of reflection...

Anyhow... If you guys would like to read up on The Fascist Ideology of Star Trek: Militarism, Collectivism, & Atheism published by Kelley L. Ross, Ph.D.and give me your after thaughs I would greatly appreaciate it.

http://www.friesian.com/trek.htm

I, myself, felt that it abit over exagerated, at times, but some of it made sence. I fear Star Trek might be all part of a grand mental conditioning propagada stunt our Elite is sponsoring to make our awakening to the ''sigularity'' less abrupt.

N.B.:I am not a member or even loosely affiliated to any intelligence organisation and remember that whatever you view, type, post or whatever can be considered as a criminal offence and will be reviewed sometimeby the nice folks at the NSA. Your IPs(are), and MACs are being(or will) recorded So to them whatever happens over the internet from your computer is pratically signed with your own blood!

Google translation :
Hallo, Ich feststelle, daß dieses nicht das beste Forum zu den adress diese Frage, wegen der Sprachbarriere sein kann, und, zu erscheinen nicht hofft, wie wünschend niemand durch mein Ausfragen beleidigen. Vor der Eintragung dieses ich habe litterally thaght siebenmal. Ich weiß, daß es ein verry empfindliches Thema ist und daß es, für Deutsche sogar ungültig ist, bestimmte Fragen betreffend sind deine eigene Geschichte zu adressieren. Ich bin Messwertalot über fascisim gewesen, wenn ich es so benennen kann, wie Hitlers Angriff in Europa pratically die Welt bildete, wie wir sie jetzt kennen. Brunnen nicht genau, da die Welt ein verry dynamischer Platz ist, aber du erhaltet das Abbildung Recht? Ich glaube, daß die neuen Durchbrüche in der Nanotechnologie gewährleisten diese Art der Reflexion…

Irgendwie… Wenn du Kerle oben auf der faschistischen Ideologie von SternTrek lesen möchtest: Militarismus, Collectivism u. veröffentlichte Atheismus durch Kelley L. Ross, Ph.D.and geben mich deinen, nachdem thaughs, die ich groß appreaciate es wurde.

http://www.friesian.com/trek.htm

I, selbst, Filz, den es abit überschuß manchmal exagerated aber etwas von ihm bildeten sence. Ich fürchte mich, daß SternTrek alles Teil einer großartigen Geistesbedingenpropagada Bremsung sein konnte, die unsere Auslese fördert, um unser Wecken zum '' sigularity '' weniger plötzlich zu bilden. Notiz::

Ich bin nicht ein Mitglied oder sogar lose angeschlossen zu irgendeiner Intelligenzorganisation und erinnere daß daran, was auch immer du, Pfosten ansiehst, schreibst, oder was auch immer als kriminelle Handlung betrachtet werden kann und die netten Völker am NSA wiederholtes sometimeby sein wird. Deine IPS (sein) und MACs werden (oder Wille) so zu ihnen notiert, was auch immer über dem Internet von deinem Computer wird pratically unterzeichnet mit deinem eigenen Blut geschieht!

[Makaan]

Buddy, if there is one thing that I really don't fear, then it's the NSA over there in America as long as I live in Switzerland.

I'd worry more about the Eidgenössiches Bundeskriminalamt in my case if I really was some kind of nazi, though the moderators and admins of these boards are quite vigilant and would ban everybody who really would be racist and fathom the ideals of the 3. Reich.

As for Star Trek, nah, I don't believe that it's going to be such a huge influence in the germanophone countries. It is after all only viewed as entertainment and not as big important part of culture. The prejudice here is that only kids and nerds watch it.

The normal consumer is more pre-occupied with self-made law-and-judge-shows and prefers to watch Stargate and Andromeda, if Scifi at all.

As for discussions about militarism, pseudo-communism, utopian and whatever aspect of Star Trek has, we also already had our fair share of it.

The general concensus is that thanks to miracle techno-babble-energy reactors and such, they can create such large amount of energy so to create their magic food out of nowhere, therefore not needing to do agriculture and that stuff anymore. Okay, so that only works for the TNG-time, because in TOS they didn't have magic replicaters, but then, nobody really gave a serious thought then. Though the TOS-time was more similar to present time then, what with a standart currency used in the Federation and death penalties and other stuff.

Well, magic I guess. Or as was said in the Simpsons: A wizard did it. Utopian, unrealistic, not-explained, absolutely fictive Star Trek, The Next Generation.

[Vulcan]

I don't understand why can't one stop compare germany or germans from today with germany or germans from over 60 years ago. there must be a day where this all has to stop. the young germans from today have nothing to do with this sick stuff from Nazi-Germany. Please open your mind.

[Renegat fünf]

Hey dude
Where are you from? and I'm very affraid over the NSA, really

I have nothing better to do Than being afraid of some foreign intelligence organisation, and i writhe from the San Manuel Jr/Sr high school. oh and I hate Nazis and Hate agains any race.

[Serenity]

I do know that it is a verry sensitive subject and that it is even illegal, for Germans, to address certain questions regarding your own history.

No, it's not illegal. People are encouraged to talk about it and reminded about it at every possible opportunity. So much that it can become very tedious.
It's only illegal to support Nazism. Like displaying their symbols. But not to talk about it.

But people are annoyed at stereotypes like that. Or when American movies and series potray Nazis in a ridiculous way, like "Enterprise" and other Star Trek episodes did. Some people also cry "Nazi" at every opportunity without really knowing what they are talking about. The internet can create the impression that many foreigners have very simplistic impressions about that time period.
If you noticed Germans being reluctant to talk about the topic, it might be because of that.

[Kaff]

Interesting essay...

Well this could explain, why some Trekkies show so much fascist behaviour when talking about their favourite TV-Show. They often view other Genre TV-Shows as less intelligent or less valuable because it is not as sophisticated as their beloved Star Trek. In that they show the same arrogance as any person, who thinks he he is from a "Herrenrasse", because they think, their show is the best.
The even have some sort of "Fuehrer cult" when talking about Gene Roddenberry.

[newman]

lol, illegal to address certain questions regarding our own history . Sometimes i believe we don't do anything else

Star Trek an Fascist Ideology

Well, if Star Trek society is comparable to any kind of today's political systems, then it is the utopia of a perfect communism
Btw: Maybe you should visit Germany or watch Star Trek yourself, that could help abolishing some antiquated prejudices . Star Trek stands for tolerance, moral behaviour, that's explicitly said in Star Trek, anything else is just a strange interpretation of strange ppl, that never was part of the idea behind Rodenberry's vision.

[Kaff]

Well, if Star Trek society is comparable to any kind of today's political systems, then it is the utopia of a perfect communism

Well communism and fascism has more in common than for example democracy and monarchy, which the essay shows very clearly.

Star Trek stands for tolerance, moral behaviour, that's explicitly said in the show,

Which curiously is only done by humans (and their alien collaborateurs). Other species are shown as less developed and have often to be taught by the humans how to behave. With other words, the way of the Herrenrasse is the only one.

And since the show preaches a lot and doesn't want the viewer to think about whats happening, it seems like a good working propaganda machinery.

[Makaan]

Nah, can't be communism either, because there was no world revolution, only a world war and some strange warp experiment that made pointy-eared aliens consider those inferior beings to be now worthy to talk face to face with them instead of abducting them and putting up anal probes for experimentation.

It's just an utopian dreamy like civilization. It's called Star Trek.

[newman]

Well communism and fascism has more in common than for example democracy and monarchy, which the essay shows very clearly.

The accentuation was on "if" and "utopia".

Which curiously is only done by humans (and their alien collaborateurs). Other species are shown as less developed and have often to be taught by the humans how to behave. With other words, the way of the Herrenrasse is the only one.

And since the show preaches a lot and doesn't want the viewer to think about whats happening, it seems like a good working propaganda machinery.

Bullshit (yes now i finally can use it ). In the Bible you also find violence and intolerance, so you also think the message of the Bible is violence and intolerance?
Star Trek is a fable, it shows the problems of our today's society or the solutions/alternatives of these problems and they are symbolized in Star Trek not with a wolf or a sheep, but with a Vulcan or Klingon. And there are several episodes the Klingon, Vulcan, Romulan or Cardassian culture is shown without prejudices and especially in DS9 and especially by Quark the Federation often enough as duplicitous.
By the way the Cardassians symbolize Facism, but in DS9 even the "bad-guys" aren't shown as heartless monsters. That's the message. There are more than enough anti-racism episodes. An ideology around a human Herrenrasse, by the American Roddenberry, lol, maybe you read too many conspiracy theories.

[Makaan]

Aliens drool. Humans rule.

That is the message of Star Trek.

All aliens are dumb and always want to fight against the homo sapiens club featuring token alien races, though the federacy only wants to bring peace to the universe through superior technology and moral down-talking.

[newman]

Aliens drool. Humans rule.

That is the message of Star Trek.

All aliens are dumb and always want to fight against the homo sapiens club featuring token alien races, though the federacy only wants to bring peace to the universe through superior technology and moral down-talking.

I must have been blind not seeing it. Aliens in Nazi uniforms, eugenic war, Roddenberry was a Nazi, we only misinterpret him. He always wanted the weak USA to collapse, to make place for the Herrenrasse, Germany was the winning nation in WWIII, the black Admirals and the black Captain are slaves of the invisible hand of an cloned and revived Hitler without any hair and disguised as Frenchman. The UFP oppresses with its unreachable ideals all the other empires by implanting a bad conscience and invading them with words until they can't stand all the morality anymore, give up and join them. Every resistance (Marqui) will be hunt down and eliminated. And Vulcans are intelligent just for show, Klingons strong just for show, in fact that's bad propaganda the UFP hopefully can eliminate in future episodes, either.

[Makaan]

Thankfully for the Federation did those dumb Cardassians eliminate the Marquis, so that the authorities didn't have to sully their hands anymore.

[Roman]

I wanted to extensively comment on this. I really wanted to. But I did not.
I read the article. From beginning to end. And I was just stunned. Finally I came to think that a brief response would work better.

Never, EVER, in my entire life have I read something more superficial about the social and philosophical aspects of Star Trek.
Ignorance, conservatism, anti-communism and pseudo-truths about essential aspects of Star Trek mark this article and its author.

I feel angry, because Doctor Ross blaims us, the fans, for "not seeing" what horrible and perilous hobby we have.
And I feel sad, for Dr. Ross obviously is one of the persons who do not have the horizon to see that - speaking with her own metaphor - Star Trek is the manifestation of Lennon's "Imagine"...and more.

[Whyme]

Interesting essay...

Well this could explain, why some Trekkies show so much fascist behaviour when talking about their favourite TV-Show. They often view other Genre TV-Shows as less intelligent or less valuable because it is not as sophisticated as their beloved Star Trek. In that they show the same arrogance as any person, who thinks he he is from a "Herrenrasse", because they think, their show is the best.
The even have some sort of "Fuehrer cult" when talking about Gene Roddenberry.

Well observed.

I am no political expert but I'd say that there ist not enough evidence to put Federation society into one of the known political systems. Even more because some of the evidence is contradictional (in Star Trek VIII, Picard said that money no longer existed but in TOS, Uhura bought a tribble with Federation dukats and on DS9, goldpressed latinum is a common currency).

Whyme