"Who's Smarter" - ein Vergleich...

[Sternengucker]

...zu dem sich jeder wohl besser selbst seine Meinung machen sollte.

Jedenfalls habe ich heute im Büro DAS per Mail bekommen:

Who is Smarter? Cindy Osborne


The Hollywood group is at it again. Holding anti-war
rallies, screaming
about the Bush Administration, running ads in major
newspapers, defaming
the President and his Cabinet every chance they get, to
anyone and everyone
who will listen. They publicly defile them and call them
names like
"stupid" , "morons", and "idiots". Jessica Lange went so far
as to tell a
crowd in Spain that she hates President Bush and is
embarrassed to be an
American.


So, just how ignorant are these people who are running the
country? Let's
look at the biographies of these "stupid", "ignorant" ,
"moronic" leaders,
and then at the celebrities who are castigating them:


President George W. Bush: Received a Bachelors Degree from
Yale University
and an MBA from Harvard Business School. He served as an
F-102 pilot for
the Texas Air National Guard. He began his career in the oil
and gas
business in Midland in 1975 and worked in the energy
industry until 1986.
He was elected Governor on November 8, 1994, with 53.5
percent of the vote.
In a historic re-election victory, he became the first Texas
Governor to be
elected to consecutive four-year terms on November 3, 1998
winning 68.6
percent of the vote. In 1998 Governor Bush won 49 percent of
the Hispanic
vote, 27 percent of the African-American vote, 27 percent of
Democrats and
65 percent of women. He won more Texas counties, 240 of 254,
than any
modern Republican other that Richard Nixon in 1972 and is
the first
Republican gubernatorial candidate to win the heavily
Hispanic and
Democratic border counties of El Paso, Cameron and Hidalgo.
(Someone began
circulating a false story about his I.Q. being lower than
any other
President. If you believed it, you might want to go to
URBANLEGENDS.COM and
see the truth.)


Vice President Dick Cheney: Earned a B.A. in 1965 and a M.A.
in 1966, both
in political science. Two years later, he won an American
Political Science
Association congressional fellowship. One of Vice President
Cheney's
primary duties is to share with individuals, members of
Congress and
foreign leaders, President Bush's vision to strengthen our
economy, secure
our homeland and win the War on Terrorism. In his official
role as
President of the Senate, Vice President Cheney regularly
goes to Capital
Hill to meet with Senators and members of the House of
Representatives to
work on the Administration's legislative goals. In his
travels as Vice
President, he has seen first hand the great demands the war
on terrorism is
placing on the men and women of our military, and he is
proud of the
tremendous job they are doing for the United States of
America.


Secretary of State Colin Powell: Was educated in the New
York City public
schools, graduating from the City College of New York
(CCNY), where he
earned a Bachelor's Degree in geology. He also participated
in ROTC at CCNY
and received a commission as an Army second lieutenant upon
graduation in
June 1958. His further academic achievements include a
Master of Business
Administration Degree from George Washington University.
Secretary Powell
is the recipient of numerous U.S. and foreign military
awards and
decorations. Secretary Powell's civilian awards include two
Presidential
Medals of Freedom, the President's Citizens Medal, the
Congressional Gold
Medal, the Secretary of State Distinguished Service Medal,
and the
Secretary of Energy Distinguished Service Medal. Several
schools and other
institutions have been named in his honor and he holds
honorary degrees
from universities and colleges across the country.


Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld: Attended Princeton
University on
Scholarship (AB, 1954) and served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57)
as a Naval
aviator ; Congressional Assistant to Rep. Robert Griffin
(R-MI), 1957-59;
U.S. Representative, Illinois, 1962-69; Assistant to the
President,
Director of the Office of Economic Opportunity, Director of
the Cost of
Living Council, 1969-74; U.S. Ambassador to NATO, 1973-74;
head of
Presidential Transition Team, 1974; Assistant to the
President, Director of
White House Office of Operations, White House Chief of
Staff, 1974-77;
Secretary of Defense, 1975-77


Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge: Was raised in a
working class
family in veterans' public housing in Erie. He earned a
scholarship to
Harvard, graduating with honors in 1967. After his first
year at The
Dickinson School of Law, he was drafted into the U.S. Army,
where he served
as an infantry staff sergeant in Vietnam, earning the Bronze
Star for
Valor. After returning to Pennsylvania, he earned his Law
Degree and was in
private practice before becoming Assistant District Attorney
in Erie
County. He was elected to Congress in 1982. He was the first
enlisted
Vietnam combat veteran elected to the U.S. House, and was
overwhelmingly
re-elected six times.


National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice: Earned her
Bachelor's Degree in
Political Science, Cum Laude and Phi Beta Kappa, from the
University of
Denver in 1974; her Master's from the University of Notre
Dame in 1975; and
her Ph.D. from the Graduate School of International Studies
at the
University of Denver in 1981. (Note: Rice enrolled at the
University of
Denver at the age of 15, graduating at 19 with a Bachelor's
Degree in
Political Science (Cum Laude). She earned a Master's Degree
at the
University of Notre Dame and a Doctorate from the University
of Denver's
Graduate School of International Studies. Both of her
advanced degrees are
also in Political Science.) She is a Fellow of the American
Academy of Arts
and Sciences and has been awarded Honorary Doctorates from
Morehouse
College in 1991, the University of Alabama in 1994, and the
University of
Notre Dame in 1995. At Stanford, she has been a member of
the Center for
International Security and Arms Control, a Senior Fellow of
the Institute
for International Studies, and a Fellow (by courtesy) of the
Hoover
Institution. Her books include Germany Unified and Europe
Transformed
(1995) with Philip Zelikow, The Gorbachev Era (1986) with
Alexander Dallin,
and Uncertain Allegiance: The Soviet Union and the
Czechoslovak Army
(1984). She also has written numerous articles on Soviet and
East European
foreign and defense policy, and has addressed audiences in
settings ranging
from the U.S. Ambassador's Residence in Moscow to the
Commonwealth Club to
the 1992 and 2000 Republican National Conventions. From 1989
through March
1991, the period of German reunification and the final days
of the Soviet
Union, she served in the Bush Administration as Director,
and then Senior
Director, of Soviet and East European Affairs in the
National Security
Council, and a Special Assistant to the President for
National Security
Affairs. In 1986, while an international affairs fellow of
the Council on
Foreign Relations, she served as Special Assistant to the
Director of the
Joint Chiefs of Staff. In 1997, she served on the Federal
Advisory
Committee on Gender -- Integrated Training in the Military.
She was a
member of the boards of directors for the Chevron
Corporation, the Charles
Schwab Corporation, the William and Flora Hewlett
Foundation, the
University of Notre Dame, the International Advisory Council
of J.P. Morgan
and the San Francisco Symphony Board of Governors. She was a
Founding Board
member of the Center for a New Generation, an educational
support fund for
schools in East Palo Alto and East Menlo Park, California
and was Vice
President of the Boys and Girls Club of the Peninsula. In
addition, her
past board service has encompassed such organizations as
Transamerica
Corporation, Hewlett Packard, the Carnegie Corporation,
Carnegie Endowment
for International Peace, The Rand Corporation, the National
Council for
Soviet and East European Studies, the Mid-Peninsula Urban
Coalition and
KQED, public broadcasting for San Francisco. Born November
14, 1954 in
Birmingham, Alabama, she earned her bachelor's degree in
political science,
cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa, from the University of Denver
in 1974; her
Master's from the University of Notre Dame in 1975; and her
Ph.D. from the
Graduate School of International Studies at the University
of Denver in
1981. She is a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and
Sciences and has
been awarded Honorary Doctorates from Morehouse College in
1991, the
University of Alabama in 1994, and the University of Notre
Dame in 1995.
She resides in Washington, D.C.


So who are these celebrities? What is their education? What
is their
experience in affairs of State or in National Security?
While I will defend
to the death their right to express their opinions, I think
that if they
are going to call into question the intelligence of our
leaders, we should
also have all the facts on their educations and background:


Barbra Streisand : Completed high school
Career: Singing and acting


Cher: Dropped out of school in 9th grade.
Career: Singing and acting


Martin Sheen Flunked exam to enter University of Dayton.
Career: Acting


Jessica Lange Dropped out college mid-freshman year.
Career: Acting


Alec Baldwin Dropped out of George Washington U. after
scandal
Career: Acting


Julia Roberts Completed high school
Career: Acting


Sean Penn Completed High school
Career: Acting


Susan Sarandon Degree in Drama from Catholic University of
America
in Washington, D.C.
Career: Acting


Ed Asner Completed High school
Career: Acting


George Clooney Dropped out of University of Kentucky
Career: Acting


Michael Moore Dropped out first year University of Michigan.
Career: Movie Director


Sarah Jessica Parker: Completed High School
Career: Acting


Jennifer Anniston: Completed High School
Career: Acting


Mike Farrell Completed High school
Career: Acting


Janeane Garofelo Dropped out of College.
Career: Stand up comedienne


Larry Hagman Attended Bard College for one year.
Career: Acting


While comparing the education and experience of these two
groups, we should
also remember that President Bush and his cabinet are
briefed daily, even
hourly, on the War on Terror and threats to our security.
They are privy to
information gathered around the world concerning the Middle
East, the
threats to America, the intentions of terrorists and
terrorist-supporting
governments. They are in constant communication with the
CIA, the FBI,
Interpol, NATO, The United Nations, our own military, and
that of our
allies around the world. We cannot simply believe that we
have full
knowledge of the threats because we watch CNN!! We cannot
believe that we
are in any way as informed as our leaders.


These celebrities have no intelligence-gathering agents, no
fact-finding
groups, no insight into the minds of those who would destroy
our country.
They only have a deep seated hatred for all things
Republican. By nature,
and no one knows quite why, the Hollywood elitists detest
Conservative
views and anything that supports or uplifts the United
States of America.
The silence was deafening from the Left when Bill Clinton
bombed a
pharmaceutical factory outside of Khartoum, or when he
attacked the Bosnian
Serbs in 1995 and 1999. He bombed Serbia itself to get
Slobodan Milosevic
out of Kosovo, and not a single peace rally was held. When
our Rangers were
ambushed in Somalia and 18 young American lives were lost,
not a peep was
heard from Hollywood. Yet now, after our nation has been
attacked on its
own soil, after 3,000 Americans were killed by
freedom-hating terrorists
while going about their routine lives, they want to hold
rallies against
the war. Why the change? Because an honest, God-fearing
Republican sits in
the White House.


Another irony is that in 1987, when Ronald Reagan was in
office, the
Hollywood group aligned themselves with disarmament groups
like SANE,
FREEZE and PEACE ACTION, urging our own government to disarm
and freeze the
manufacturing of any further nuclear weapons, in order to
promote world
peace. It is curious that now, even after we have heard all
the evidence
that Saddam Hussein has chemical, biological and is very
close to obtaining
nuclear weapons, their is no cry from this group for HIM to
disarm. They
believe we should leave him alone in his quest for these
weapons of mass
destruction, even though it is certain that these deadly
weapons will
eventually be used against us in our own cities.


So why the hype out of Hollywood? Could these celebrities
believe that
since they draw such astronomical salaries, they are
entitled to also
determine the course of our Nation? That they can make
viable decisions
concerning war and peace? Did Michael Moore have the backing
of the Nation
when he recently thanked France, on our behalf, for being a
"good enough
friend to tell us we were wrong"? I know for certain he was
not speaking
for me. Does Sean Penn fancy himself a Diplomat, in going to
Iraq when we
are just weeks away from war? Does he believe that his High
School Diploma
gives him the knowledge (and the right) to go to a country
that is
controlled by a maniacal dictator, and speak on behalf of
the American
people? Or is it the fact that he pulls in more money per
year than the
average American worker will see in a lifetime? Does his
bank account give
him clout?


The ultimate irony is that many of these celebrities have
made a shambles
of their own lives, with drug abuse, alcoholism, numerous
marriages and
divorces, scrapes with the law, publicized temper tantrums,
etc. How dare
they pretend to know what is best for an entire nation! What
is even more
bizarre is how many people in this country will listen and
accept their
views, simply because they liked them in a certain movie, or
have fond
memories of an old television sitcom!


It is time for us, as citizens of the United States, to
educate ourselves
about the world around us. If future generations are going
to enjoy the
freedoms that our forefathers bequeathed us, if they are
ever to know peace
in their own country and their world, to live without fear
of terrorism
striking in their own cities, we must assure that this
nation remains
strong. We must make certain that those who would destroy us
are made aware
of the severe consequences that will befall them.


Yes, it is a wonderful dream to sit down with dictators and
terrorists and
join hands, singing Cumbaya and talking of world peace. But
it is not real.
We did not stop Adolf Hitler from taking over the entire
continent of
Europe by simply talking to him. We sent our best and
brightest, with the
strength and determination that this Country is known for,
and defeated the
Nazi regime. President John F. Kennedy did not stop the
Soviet ships from
unloading their nuclear missiles in Cuba in 1962 with mere
words. He
stopped them with action, and threat of immediate war if the
ships did not
turn around. We did not end the Cold War with conferences.
It ended with
the strong belief of President Ronald Reagan...

Ich enthalte mich vorerst einer Meinungsäußerung, wäre aber gespannt ob andere es ähnlich sehen wie ich

btw.: der angesprochene Artikel zum IQ von Bush findet sich Hier!

[Nicolas Hazen]

Nun, ich kann jetzt nicht sagen ob die Datan und "Fakten" über die Regierungsmitglieder stimmen, aber jedenfalls ist diese Meinung die hier vertreten wird typisch für die wirklich überzeugten Anhäner der fasch... ähm der Republikaner !

Und BTW zeigen diese Daten und Fakten dass in den USA auch wirklich dumme Leute einen guten akademischen Weg nehmen können !

[Ford Prefect]

Ich hab in letzter Zeit viele solcher Kommentare zu den Meinungsäußerungen von Hollywoodstars gehört und das ganze ist blödsinn. Schon wenn man bei Mr Bush die Aufzählung der Wahlerfolge (könnte man auch die Erfolge der Filmstars aufzählen) weglässt, verkürzt sich der Abschnitt seiner erbrachten Leistungen doch reichlich. Zudem werden intelligente Entscheidungen nicht von Diplomen getroffen.
Dennoch hab ich mir mal Susan Sarandon (degree in drama) rausgepickt: Sie belegte während ihres Studiums die Fächer Drama, Englisch und militärische Strategien.
Ansonsten verliert sich der Autor im unteren Abschnitt in der Wiederholung von Propaganda Müll. Seine Urban Legend sollte er vielleicht bei den vorgebrachten Beweise gegen den Irak suchen.
Wenn er nichts auf die Meinung von Berühmtheiten gibt sollte der Autor vielleicht auf den Großteil der Weltbevölkerung hören. Sein Kennedy Bezug war jedenfalls ebenso schlecht gewählt. Immerhin ist Kennedy in der Kuba Krise eher behutsam vorgeganen und hat nicht auf die Falken im Kabinett gehört.

Interessant noch, dass die Aufzählung bei Frau Rice garnicht aufhören will. Ihre Leistungen bezüglich der Deutschen Einheit sind auch durchaus würdigenswert. Die Dame hat schon was drauf unterliegt aber auch einem merkwürdigem Glauben an Bush.

[Fermat Sim]

Hallo!

Wie hat es George W. Bush bei einer Rede in Yale (?) gesagt? Er ist der lebende Beweis, dass auch durchschnittliche Studenten Präsident der USA werden können

Es kommt doch viel weniger auf die Intelligenz als auf die guten Beziehungen an. Bush z.B. hatte ja nie irgendwelche Probleme, er wurde einfach von seiner Familie durchgehievt... und wer immer geschrieben hat, dass er in der Ölindustrie war, hat wohl vergessen, dass er so ganz nebenbei ein paar Firmen in den Ruin getrieben hat

Und gerade wenn Bush & Co. den ganzen lieben langen Tag lang gecoacht werden, ist es doch umso erschreckender wenn Bush nicht mal weiß, wie der Premierminister von Indien heißt (Hallo, dort leben 1 Mill. Menschen!!).

Überhaupt finde ich diese Gegenüberstellung extrem nichtssagend. Als ob Intelligenz und Bildung, bzw. Bildung und Zivilcourage sowie gesunder Menschenverstand unmittelbar miteinander zu tun haben.
Vor allem in den USA, wo man für einen Universitätsbesuch ja unglaubliche Summen hinlegen muss, kann sich eben nicht jeder einen Abschluss leisten.
Das hat aber weder etwas mit den Qualitäten des Menschen zu tun noch mit seiner moralischen Integrität.
Dieses Mail ist ziemlicher Schwachsinn und argumentativ meiner Meinung nach unhaltbar.

MfG,
Fermat Sim

[Noulder]

Auch die Bezeichnung MBA ist nicht eindeutig. Es heist auf jeden Fall "Master of Business-Administration" aber z.B. wird diese Bezeichnung an der FH-Weihenstephan für eigentlich nur für "Master of Business-Administration in Agrikultur" gebraucht.

Also für Diplom-Landwirte, was jetzt nicht allgemein abwertent sein soll, aber ich denke, es ist nicht sonderlich schwer, in diesem Studiengang durchschnittlich zu sein.

[Sternengucker]

Ich hatte eigentlich auf eine regere Diskussion gehofft, naja sei's drum....

Ich finde eigentlich (neben der SEHR willkürlichen Kürzung der Lebensläufe der Schauspielerfraktion und der ebenso willkürlichen Ausbreitung nahezu jeden Details über die Regierungsseite) besonders eine Stelle interessant:

These celebrities have no intelligence-gathering agents, no fact-finding groups, no insight into the minds of those who would destroy our country.

Wenn die Regierung wirklich gute "Intelligence Gathering Agents" und Einsicht in die Gedanken derjenigen die angeblich ihr Land zerstören wollen hätte, warum musste dann vor den Vereinten Nationen dermaßen fadenscheiniges Material dran glauben? Selbst wenn es nicht gefaket war, sehr beweiskräftig sind derlei Dinge nun wirklich nicht.

Oder auch der beliebte Running Gag mit den Massenvernichtungswaffen:

It is curious that now, even after we have heard all the evidence that Saddam Hussein has chemical, biological and is very close to obtaining nuclear weapons, their is no cry from this group for HIM to disarm. They believe we should leave him alone in his quest for these weapons of mass destruction, even though it is certain that these deadly weapons will eventually be used against us in our own cities.

Wenn die CIA wirklich die Beweise für derartig massive Programme gehabt hätte, wieso wurde die UNO nicht darauf hingewiesen? Es wäre ein Leichtes gewesen, die Zerstörung von aufgefundenen ABC Waffen anzuordnen, dafür gab es ja die Resolutionen.

Und was soll eine Formulierung wie "es ist SICHER, daß VIELLEICHT".... entweder ist es gewiß oder es ist möglich, es kann aber nicht gewiß sein daß es möglich wäre...


Da biegt sich jemand seine Weltsicht gegen die Friedensbewegung zurecht, daß das Gebälk knirrscht.

Ausserdem wäre ich sehr daran interessiert zu sehen, wie die Lebensläufe der schätzungsweise 500 anderen Prominenten aussahen die auch diese Aufrufe unterschrieben haben sollen... das war ja nicht nur ein Dutzend. Ob da wirklich die wichtigsten Beispiele herausgegriffen wurden oder die passendsten

[max]

Another irony is that in 1987, when Ronald Reagan was in
office, the Hollywood group aligned themselves with disarmament groups like SANE, FREEZE and PEACE ACTION, urging our own government to disarm and freeze the manufacturing of any further nuclear weapons, in order to promote world peace. It is curious that now, even after we have heard all the evidence that Saddam Hussein has chemical, biological and is very close to obtaining nuclear weapons, their is no cry from this group for HIM to disarm.

Neben den fehlenden Beweise ist hier noch was sehr auffallend. Diese Leute unterstützen die Regierung des Landes mit den meisten Massenvernichtungswaffen. Es wird aber kein Wort über die Anthrax-Bestände in den USA, mit denen vor 2 Jahren ein Angriff auf die Führung der Demokraten erfolgte verloren. Mal ganz abgesehen von dem immer noch massiven Atom-Waffen-Beständen. Die USA ist einer der wenigen Staaten, der in den letzten Jahren mit dem Einsatz dieser Waffen gedroht hat (die anderen sind Nordkorea, Pakistan, Indien, Grossbritannien und Israel?) und auch Waffen entwickelt, die sie meinen einsetzen zu dürfen ("taktische" Atomwaffen). In Nature, einer naturwissenschaftlichen Fachzeitschrift, lese ich gerade, dass die USA überlegen C-Waffen einzusetzen und zwar vergleichbar mit dem Giftgas, das in Moskau bei der "Befreiung" der Geiseln über hundert Tote gefordert hat.

Dieser Text ist typisch für die Verlogenheit und Doppelmoral der Herrschenden in den USA.

P.S. hier noch ein Beispiel für die "Qualität" der Beweisführung der Bush-Regierung:
Am Sonntag, den 16. März, sprach Vizepräsident Richard Cheney im Fernsehen und sagte, der Irak habe "tatsächlich seine nuklearen Waffen wieder hergestellt". Knapp fünf Minuten später behauptete er, es sei "nur eine Frage der Zeit, bis er [Saddam Hussein] nukleare Waffen erwirbt." Der schreiende Widerspruch zwischen den beiden Aussagen wurde vom Interviewer nicht hinterfragt. Mohamed ElBaradei hatte Cheneys Behauptung allerdings bereits widerlegt, als er dem Sicherheitsrat berichtete, das es "keinerlei Anzeichen für die Wiederaufnahme nuklearer Aktivitäten" gebe.

[Agent D]

Original geschrieben von Sternengucker
Und was soll eine Formulierung wie "es ist SICHER, daß VIELLEICHT".... entweder ist es gewiß oder es ist möglich, es kann aber nicht gewiß sein daß es möglich wäre...

Dazu habe ich eben mal ein Wörterbuch konsultiert, weil ich auch schon so im Gefühl hatte, dass eventually nicht mit "eventuell" gleichzusetzen ist:

eventually
dt. schließlich, endlich

Also kein vielleicht...

Viel schlagender ist aber, dass der ganze Satz aussagt, die ganzen Anti-Kriegs-Demonstranten wären dafür, Saddam in Ruhe an seinen Waffen basteln zu lassen, und das hat nach meinem Kenntnisstand keiner dieser Leute gefordert...

Ganz abgesehen davon finde ich es ziemlich kindisch, in so einer Situation einfach die Ausbildung von Bush & Co. mit ein paar ausgewählten US-Schauspielern zu vergleichen. Ein Ausbildungskatalog von was weiß ich für welcher Länge sagt, wie man sieht, doch offenbar gar nichts über die moralische Integrität der betreffenden Damen und Herren aus. Das lernt man nämlich glaube ich nicht an irgendeiner Universität oder gar beim Militär. Ich würde die ganze Aktion eher unter "getroffene Hunde..." einordnen.